Over 90% of Americans believe in God

[00 Don Status]

Re: Over 90% of Americans believe in God

but yeah it is unscientific to attempt to question something based on gut feelings...do you not agree? i'm sure you do bc the scienfic method doesn't ask about your gut feelings, its all critical analysis. Maybe I do agree that in some senses, depending what you mean by spiritual, to rely on evidence is profoundly unspiritual...at the very least can say its profoundly not faith based which would in many ways make it unreligious (i know this isnt a word lol)

[Pee Liker]

Re: Over 90% of Americans believe in God

like i agree with what you're saying but i don't know why you're assuming everything has to do with science

the scientific method doesn't cover gut feelings, but being human comes with gut feelings lmfao i don't know how else to explain my point here

there's no reason for you to tell somebody that claims they believe in god that they need to question it scientifically, just like there's no reason for anybody to tell you who's interested in science to search your feelings and see what your heart tells you about scientifically explained phenomena, it just isn't always a factor

[00 Don Status]

Re: Over 90% of Americans believe in God

While i personally think everyone should, i dont think i ever imposed so much as to say anyone must question it in the first place. I'm just saying if they *Are going to seriously question the existence of god, the most effective way to go about doing so would be regarding it as the scientific matter that it is.

I know being human comes wit gut feelings man lol, just saying they can be misleading and are unreliable if you are trying to use them to actively seek truth. I'm more than aware people don't look at everything as scientific; it might in fact be against common human nature to question things deeply that people hold so tightly to with emotion

[larry word]

Re: Over 90% of Americans believe in God

why must science be the be-all, end-all ruler of "truth" though? if i have a DMT trip which serves as a transcendental experience, why would i discount it all just because science can't currently explain what i felt (nh)?

"truth" (which is a weird umbrella term as its used in the last few posts at least) IMO is an individual ordeal, and it is up to the individual to decide how they want to arrive at their conclusions

[Scouser]

Re: Over 90% of Americans believe in God

any one who believes in the gods off any holy book are idiots

[00 Don Status]

Re: Over 90% of Americans believe in God

why must science be the be-all, end-all ruler of "truth" though? if i have a DMT trip which serves as a transcendental experience, why would i discount it all just because science can't currently explain what i felt (nh)?

"truth" (which is a weird umbrella term as its used in the last few posts at least) IMO is an individual ordeal, and it is up to the individual to decide how they want to arrive at their conclusions

how do you know that experience would be currently unexplainable to science? there are mechanisms in the brain that are known to respond to those chemicals and produce profound effects like that. On the subject of the brain producing seemingly supernatural effects, conditions like temporal lobe epilepsy are known to make people think that are experiencing the presence of a god or that they are god even

who said you must discount anything? imo someone who had an experience like that is closed minded if they aren't at least open to the possibility that it could be a natural occurance. Of course even if it isn't fully explainable or not explainable at all, that would give no support to the argument that it was a transcendental experience that would suggest the existence of something supernatural

[00 Don Status]

Re: Over 90% of Americans believe in God

Science and Epistemology using logical fallacies as guildelines are the only reliable and independently verifiable paths to finding out if a given claim (a positive claim) is true or not. The most effective ways to obtaining accurate beliefs are not likely through divine revelation; there have been revelations for a vast array of different and contradicting religions showing that false revelations or misleading can occur.

[00 Don Status]

Re: Over 90% of Americans believe in God

Temporal Lobe Epilepsy Video - YouTube

cool af condition actually, studied this series in Neuro

[Scouser]

Re: Over 90% of Americans believe in God

OK, a little quiz. Who am I talking about?

He was born to a virgin by immaculate conception through the intervention of a holy spirit. This fulfilled an ancient prophecy. When he was born the ruling tyrant wanted to kill him. His parents had to flee to safety. All male children under the age of two were slain by the ruler as he sought to kill the child. Angels and shepherds were at his birth and he was given gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh. He was worshipped as the saviour of men and led a moral and humble life. He performed miracles which included healing the sick, giving sight to the blind, casting out devils and raising the dead. He was put to death on the cross between two thieves. He descended to hell and rose from the dead to ascend back to heaven.21

Sounds exactly like."Jesus".doesn’t it?.But it’s not. That is how they described the Eastern saviour god known as.*Virishna*."1,200 years before Jesus is claimed to have been born". If you want a saviour god who died so our sins could be forgiven, take your pick from the ancient world because there are a stream of them

[00 Don Status]

Re: Over 90% of Americans believe in God

true Horus was born from a virgin too

[larry word]

Re: Over 90% of Americans believe in God

why must science be the be-all, end-all ruler of "truth" though? if i have a DMT trip which serves as a transcendental experience, why would i discount it all just because science can't currently explain what i felt (nh)?

"truth" (which is a weird umbrella term as its used in the last few posts at least) IMO is an individual ordeal, and it is up to the individual to decide how they want to arrive at their conclusions

how do you know that experience would be currently unexplainable to science? there are mechanisms in the brain that are known to respond to those chemicals and produce profound effects like that. On the subject of the brain producing seemingly supernatural effects, conditions like temporal lobe epilepsy are known to make people think that are experiencing the presence of a god or that they are god even

who said you must discount anything? imo someone who had an experience like that is closed minded if they aren't at least open to the possibility that it could be a natural occurance. Of course even if it isn't fully explainable or not explainable at all, that would give no support to the argument that it was a transcendental experience that would suggest the existence of something supernatural

okay uh say you had this DMT trip several thousands years ago? or in the caveman days, before they even knew what science was? at the time they could not "explain" what they just experienced; that doesn't mean their truth is somehow less valuable than a lab scientist's "truth" and understanding of the world

yes we know science is the only way to do a "hard proof" of a "claim"... there's no need to repeat that. my point is that when you get into shit like the meaning of life or any similar life-changing experiences, that can very well (and some would argue it must) happen on an individual, personal level that you could not and would not want to explain/prove to someone else

[Fleekan]

Re: Over 90% of Americans believe in God

yeh i heard that the first christians tripped on shrooms and they couldve interpreted that experience as god

[00 Don Status]

Re: Over 90% of Americans believe in God

okay uh say you had this DMT trip several thousands years ago? or in the caveman days, before they even knew what science was? at the time they could not "explain" what they just experienced; that doesn't mean their truth is somehow less valuable than a lab scientist's "truth" and understanding of the world

yes we know science is the only way to do a "hard proof" of a "claim"... there's no need to repeat that. my point is that when you get into shit like the meaning of life or any similar life-changing experiences, that can very well (and some would argue it must) happen on an individual, personal level that you could not and would not want to explain/prove to someone else

Depending on what you mean by valuable, I agree the caveman's truth isn't necessarily less valuable about the DMT, but obviously it is nowhere near as accurate as using the scientific method. Their methodology was mostly based on primitive patterns (that sometimes revealed simple, yet accurate conclusions) but didn't know about the concepts of observation, testing, sample size, hypothesis, theories, or even logic for that matter. If it was a person today, or a caveman that knew of science, the individual would derive different conclusions with far more accuracy and detail about the natural world than than those of a caveman/person today with no understanding of science.

also if someone has a life changing experience that happened to them that they don't want to explain or prove to me...then thats cool w me. millions of people have had life changing, transcendent experiences, plenty of which are explainable as nothing more than an arousal of their nervous system due to a profound event, adrenaline, drugs hallucinations, oxygen deprivation hallucinations (near death experiences) etc. Personal testimonies alone can lead you to all sorts of different contradicting conclusions

[00 Don Status]

Re: Over 90% of Americans believe in God

Fleekan, the guy who is though to have wrote the book of Revelation, John of Patmos, was from an island with an abundance of hallucinogenic mushrooms...makes ya think
:eriko:

[larry word]

Re: Over 90% of Americans believe in God

life changing, transcendent experiences, plenty of which are explainable as nothing more than an arousal of their nervous system due to a profound event, adrenaline, drugs hallucinations, oxygen deprivation hallucinations (near death experiences) etc.

see but my point is science by nature is always changing and progressive (or at least it should be)

there could very well be other phenomena that science currently isn't able to capture or repeat in controlled experiments. the fact that science currently cannot do that does not preclude the "reality" of those whatsoever. science/philosophy has had an extensive history of superseded theories and it seems silly to place what to me is an unjustified amount of "faith" (lol) in the current state of science