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[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ4hWJGJD_w"]Jordan overrated? - YouTube[/ame]
Collins tried to put Jordan at the point guard in 1989. The idea was that Jordan was such a tremendous penetrator, that he could break down a defense and hit the open man or score. Jordan responded with 11 triple doubles in his first 13 games. However, he was often found going to the scorers' table to check to see how many rebounds or assists he needed to get a triple-double. He played for stats. Doug Collins later said, "Do you know who's the biggest obstacle to us running? Michael Jordan, that's who. He won't let go of the ball."
This selfishness resulted in players standing around and watching Jordan, or Jordan not passing to the open guy with the best shot. Without Jordan, the teams flowed into their offense and found the open man. That is why they consistently shoot better when Jordan doesn't play. Jordan simply does not make his teammates better.
Furthermore, I issued this challenge on Usenet: Name one player whose career was enhanced by Jordan. I never received a serious challenge. Let’s look at some of the candidates.
Scottie Pippen – The press love to sing long songs about Jordan made Pippen. However, their songs are missing a few verses. For example. Why did Pippen have his finest seasons without Jordan? In 1994, Pippen averaged 22 ppg, 8.7 rpg, and 5.6 apg. In 1995, Pippen became only the second player in history (Dave Cowens was the first) to lead his team in points, rebounds, assists, blocks, and steals. How could he do this without Jordan to make him better?
Furthermore, when deciding to retire, Jordan said over and over that he would not play without Pippen. While recovering from foot "Why did [Scottie] Pippen have his finest seasons when Jordan was playing baseball?"
surgery in December of 1997, Pippen said that he was not going to play with the Bulls when he was fully recovered. Jordan said that if he had known this, he would not have come back. Why? If Jordan makes everyone so much better, why not fill in Scott Burrell into Pippen’s position (or Toni Kukoc, for that matter), and make another Pippen? Answer: Jordan didn’t make Pippen. Pippen made Pippen. Without Jordan, he is still the dominating defensive player, and he continues to be a complete player.
The typical Jordan fan will respond with "how many championships did Pippen win without Jordan?" The answer is zero. Likewise, how many championships did Jordan win without Pippen? Zero. Comparing these two players apart from each is very unfavorable for Jordan. Pippen had a better career record and a better post-season record than Jordan. Pippen's only losing season was his final year in the NBA, when he missed much of the season due to injury and was in a veteran leadership role for the young re-building Bulls. That was the only time in Pippen's career he had a losing record and the only time he missed the playoffs. Jordan played 5 seasons without Pippen. Out of those 5 seasons, he posted 5 losing records, missed the playoffs twice, and was 1-9 in the playoffs.
Think about it: Jordan never had a winning record apart from Pippen. Pippen played on many playoff teams in Portland and Houston without Jordan.
It makes you wonder who made who a better ball player, or at least who was the most valuable player to the win-loss column.
Dennis Rodman – Rodman had established himself LONG before playing with Jordan. His defensive reputation was made in Detroit, where he was voted the Defensive Player of the Year in 1990 and 91. His rebounding ability was established in Detroit, also, where he won the first of his seven consecutive rebounding titles (4 without Jordan), and his reputation as a winner was established in Detroit, where he won two titles – both times defeating Jordan’s Bulls. "Rodman established his rebounding and winning ways in Detroit, when he beat Jordan twice on the way to the championship."
"If 7 points and 5 rebounds per game is your shining example ofJordan making someone better, than Jordan sucked at improving those around him." Luc Longley – Put simply, Longley was a bad player before he joined the Bulls. He was a bad player when he played with the Bulls, and he was a bad player after he left the Bulls. Nobody has questioned Jason Kidd’s ability to improve his teammates, and even he hasn’t been able to coax out respectable play from Longley. If seven points and 5 rebounds is what you want out of your center, then Longley is your man, but you don’t need Jordan to get this out of him.
If 7 points and 5 rebounds per game is your shining example of Jordan making someone better, than Jordan sucked at improving those around him. He improved Longley from a laughable joke to a mildly amusing joke. Wow!
John Paxson – This is the guy that most Jordan fans bring up. Paxson was on the perfect team in Chicago (perhaps the only team he could get significant minutes with), but his career blossomed because of Scottie Pippen, not Jordan. Let me explain:
Jordan could not play well with classic "
Collins tried to put Jordan at the point guard in 1989. The idea was that Jordan was such a tremendous penetrator, that he could break down a defense and hit the open man or score. Jordan responded with 11 triple doubles in his first 13 games. However, he was often found going to the scorers' table to check to see how many rebounds or assists he needed to get a triple-double. He played for stats. Doug Collins later said, "Do you know who's the biggest obstacle to us running? Michael Jordan, that's who. He won't let go of the ball."
This selfishness resulted in players standing around and watching Jordan, or Jordan not passing to the open guy with the best shot. Without Jordan, the teams flowed into their offense and found the open man. That is why they consistently shoot better when Jordan doesn't play. Jordan simply does not make his teammates better.
Furthermore, I issued this challenge on Usenet: Name one player whose career was enhanced by Jordan. I never received a serious challenge. Let’s look at some of the candidates.
Scottie Pippen – The press love to sing long songs about Jordan made Pippen. However, their songs are missing a few verses. For example. Why did Pippen have his finest seasons without Jordan? In 1994, Pippen averaged 22 ppg, 8.7 rpg, and 5.6 apg. In 1995, Pippen became only the second player in history (Dave Cowens was the first) to lead his team in points, rebounds, assists, blocks, and steals. How could he do this without Jordan to make him better?
Furthermore, when deciding to retire, Jordan said over and over that he would not play without Pippen. While recovering from foot "Why did [Scottie] Pippen have his finest seasons when Jordan was playing baseball?"
surgery in December of 1997, Pippen said that he was not going to play with the Bulls when he was fully recovered. Jordan said that if he had known this, he would not have come back. Why? If Jordan makes everyone so much better, why not fill in Scott Burrell into Pippen’s position (or Toni Kukoc, for that matter), and make another Pippen? Answer: Jordan didn’t make Pippen. Pippen made Pippen. Without Jordan, he is still the dominating defensive player, and he continues to be a complete player.
The typical Jordan fan will respond with "how many championships did Pippen win without Jordan?" The answer is zero. Likewise, how many championships did Jordan win without Pippen? Zero. Comparing these two players apart from each is very unfavorable for Jordan. Pippen had a better career record and a better post-season record than Jordan. Pippen's only losing season was his final year in the NBA, when he missed much of the season due to injury and was in a veteran leadership role for the young re-building Bulls. That was the only time in Pippen's career he had a losing record and the only time he missed the playoffs. Jordan played 5 seasons without Pippen. Out of those 5 seasons, he posted 5 losing records, missed the playoffs twice, and was 1-9 in the playoffs.
Think about it: Jordan never had a winning record apart from Pippen. Pippen played on many playoff teams in Portland and Houston without Jordan.
It makes you wonder who made who a better ball player, or at least who was the most valuable player to the win-loss column.
Dennis Rodman – Rodman had established himself LONG before playing with Jordan. His defensive reputation was made in Detroit, where he was voted the Defensive Player of the Year in 1990 and 91. His rebounding ability was established in Detroit, also, where he won the first of his seven consecutive rebounding titles (4 without Jordan), and his reputation as a winner was established in Detroit, where he won two titles – both times defeating Jordan’s Bulls. "Rodman established his rebounding and winning ways in Detroit, when he beat Jordan twice on the way to the championship."
"If 7 points and 5 rebounds per game is your shining example ofJordan making someone better, than Jordan sucked at improving those around him." Luc Longley – Put simply, Longley was a bad player before he joined the Bulls. He was a bad player when he played with the Bulls, and he was a bad player after he left the Bulls. Nobody has questioned Jason Kidd’s ability to improve his teammates, and even he hasn’t been able to coax out respectable play from Longley. If seven points and 5 rebounds is what you want out of your center, then Longley is your man, but you don’t need Jordan to get this out of him.
If 7 points and 5 rebounds per game is your shining example of Jordan making someone better, than Jordan sucked at improving those around him. He improved Longley from a laughable joke to a mildly amusing joke. Wow!
John Paxson – This is the guy that most Jordan fans bring up. Paxson was on the perfect team in Chicago (perhaps the only team he could get significant minutes with), but his career blossomed because of Scottie Pippen, not Jordan. Let me explain:
Jordan could not play well with classic "
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