Alabama Senate election Moore vs Jones

[Clarke Reloaded]

Re: Alabama Senate election Moore vs Jones

cucks stole another one

I prefer a cuck over a pedophile.


At least I know one of them wont fuck my underage daughter.

ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜‚😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[Snitch Clique]

Re: Alabama Senate election Moore vs Jones

Please show me where anything was busted, that hasn't been proven incorrect. The "forged yearbook entry" hoax was already debunked. The "paid to claim they were assaulted" narrative was debunked.

So please show me any actual evidence that these claims were "busted". Instead of just perpetuating the same nonsense that has already been recanted from fake twitter accounts.

First off, the sole fact she waited THAT long to come clean about "adding notes" to the yearbook indirectly admits forgery...along with the clear indication of the entire right side of his "signature", with forged notes, were added with a different ink. So either a Ray, or another Roy signed the book. Doesn't mean Roy Moore did it.

Roy was also assigned to her court case in 1999, where she didn't make a motion to recuse him from being her judge, which was 18 years CLOSER to the assault. But hey, she just so happens to be triggered by it because he was about to be elected right?

1. The "Old Hickory" House (signed on yearbook) she claimed they met up at is called OLDE Hickory House.

2. She claimed she worked there at 15. A former employee pointed out you had to be 16 to work there.

3. She claimed the dumpsters where the incident happened were at the back of the house, employees said they were at the back.

4. Olde Hickory House sat right off of the four-lane highway and had a wrap-around porch with lights all around it. Nelson claimed that the surroundings were "dark and isolated.

5. Rhonda Ledbetter, who worked at Olde Hickory House for almost 3 years, states that the earliest it closed was at 11 p.m. but she believes it was open until midnight. She is certain it did not close at 10:00 because Goodyear was next door, and employees came to eat when their shift ended at 10 p.m. Nelson claims her story occurred after the restaurant closed at 10 p.m

6. It is unlikely that there was an entrance from the back of the parking lot, which Nelson claimed existed. Multiple sources have claimed that everyone parked on the sides of the building because there wasn’t much room behind the restaurant, according to Rhonda not enough room to turn around. Renee Schivera stated that a neighborhood backed up to the parking lot and it was adjacent to the backyards of people’s houses, so she did not see how there would have been a back entrance as it would have gone through someone’s yard.

7. Nelson claimed that Judge Roy Moore came in almost every night and sat at the counter, but former employees state that customers at the counter were served by the bartender or short order cook - not served by the waitresses and had no reason to interact with the wait staff. Additionally, two former waitresses and two former patrons state they never saw Judge Moore come into the restaurant.

(These witnesses have shared their testimony with multiple news outlets. The outlets have failed to report.)

That doesn't at all "indirectly admit forgery". Who are you to say when someone must "come forward" about assault? She added the date and location for her own records, she admitted to that. Trying to use that as some sort of strawman to indicate the rest of the entry as being forged is ridiculous. You have absolutely no way to say "Either ray, or another Roy signed it" as fact. Zero. It is literally impossible for you to make that statement unless it's coupled with "in my opinion".

She's recalling an incident from a very long time ago, of course some of the details would be hazy. It's actually more evidence of being a lie when the story is "perfect" because that means it's rehearsed. When you recall a memory you're not recalling the actual memory, that's not how the brain works, you're recalling the last time you recalled the memory. So all of your points are moot and are just used to try and detract from the very real claim. A claim that was reaffirmed by numerous women. Not just one. The fact that you're willing to completely write off such a horrendous claim because she didn't exactly remember where dumpsters were located shows your bias.

Why is it so easy for you to assume that her claims are fake, but the claims of other people MUST be true? There's no way the other "witnesses" were coerced in any way or have their own agenda. Only the side that opposes your tribalism can be called into question.

That's why you can't be taken serious. You are the most biased "thinker" on this board and you ignore anything that suggests you could be wrong.

So please, show me the debunking of the other 7+ women that came forward. Debunk the interview where he said himself that he dated teenagers in his 30's. Stop using logical fallacies to target one argument and pretend it affects all the rest.

I see through you. And you're a sad little man.

[Moose]

Re: Alabama Senate election Moore vs Jones

I'm "silent", because your dumb ass, Clarke, ruins every thread you come in.

[Moose]

Re: Alabama Senate election Moore vs Jones

That doesn't at all "indirectly admit forgery". Who are you to say when someone must "come forward" about assault? She added the date and location for her own records, she admitted to that. Trying to use that as some sort of strawman to indicate the rest of the entry as being forged is ridiculous. You have absolutely no way to say "Either ray, or another Roy signed it" as fact. Zero. It is literally impossible for you to make that statement unless it's coupled with "in my opinion".

Don't want to jump in your quote train, so I'll just copy it. Lol
If she genuinely added it for her own records, it should have been immediately told that. They waited until after it came under heavy scrutiny. Also it wasn't just the date and time I believe she forged his last name and "D.A.", which would lead to believe it was a setup, but she didn't know what the "D.A." meant on that was signed next to his name.

I genuinely don't know enough about the others to give a legitimate response.

[Snitch Clique]

Re: Alabama Senate election Moore vs Jones

That doesn't at all "indirectly admit forgery". Who are you to say when someone must "come forward" about assault? She added the date and location for her own records, she admitted to that. Trying to use that as some sort of strawman to indicate the rest of the entry as being forged is ridiculous. You have absolutely no way to say "Either ray, or another Roy signed it" as fact. Zero. It is literally impossible for you to make that statement unless it's coupled with "in my opinion".

Don't want to jump in your quote train, so I'll just copy it. Lol
If she genuinely added it for her own records, it should have been immediately told that. They waited until after it came under heavy scrutiny. Also it wasn't just the date and time I believe she forged his last name and "D.A.", which would lead to believe it was a setup, but she didn't know what the "D.A." meant on that was signed next to his name.

I genuinely don't know enough about the others to give a legitimate response.

I agree it's sketchy. I even agree that people should raise questions about it. But I don't think it's enough at all to completely dismiss her claim. I also don't think it's enough to dismiss the other 7+ women. Doing that is irresponsible. Even if we did completely dismiss her, we have 7+ other women as well as Roy Moore's own words (which I've brought up at least a half-dozen times and Ekelon casually ignores every single time).

Even if we discount ALL of that, for some weird reason, we're still left with a racially biased judge that has spent his career mishandling cases. Which itself is enough for me to not trust him with national power.

[Moose]

Re: Alabama Senate election Moore vs Jones

That doesn't at all "indirectly admit forgery". Who are you to say when someone must "come forward" about assault? She added the date and location for her own records, she admitted to that. Trying to use that as some sort of strawman to indicate the rest of the entry as being forged is ridiculous. You have absolutely no way to say "Either ray, or another Roy signed it" as fact. Zero. It is literally impossible for you to make that statement unless it's coupled with "in my opinion".

Don't want to jump in your quote train, so I'll just copy it. Lol
If she genuinely added it for her own records, it should have been immediately told that. They waited until after it came under heavy scrutiny. Also it wasn't just the date and time I believe she forged his last name and "D.A.", which would lead to believe it was a setup, but she didn't know what the "D.A." meant on that was signed next to his name.

I genuinely don't know enough about the others to give a legitimate response.

I agree it's sketchy. I even agree that people should raise questions about it. But I don't think it's enough at all to completely dismiss her claim. I also don't think it's enough to dismiss the other 7+ women. Doing that is irresponsible. Even if we did completely dismiss her, we have 7+ other women as well as Roy Moore's own words (which I've brought up at least a half-dozen times and Ekelon casually ignores every single time).

Even if we discount ALL of that, for some weird reason, we're still left with a racially biased judge that has spent his career mishandling cases. Which itself is enough for me to not trust him with national power.

I think it's enough to dismiss her, honestly. I agree, it has to be on person to person basis, if one can be dismissed for whatever reason, doesn't mean they all can. I think a lot of the dismissal comes from the timing. Now, just a couple months before the election? Not that is a reason to dismiss them all either, but it's still odd.

Also we can't allow this to become a thing. It needs to be settled and if they are proven to be fake they need to have some repercussion. If they're not, well, whatever can be done about that as well, but we can't allow people to make whatever accusations right before an election and not have any repercussion (if they are lying) then it will become common place to do just to fuck with election results.

I know it's happened before, false allegations, but we really need some consequences. All political b/s aside even in everyday life.

[Tuna]

Re: Alabama Senate election Moore vs Jones

Moore would kick stipes ass in a bar fight

[Snitch Clique]

Re: Alabama Senate election Moore vs Jones

That doesn't at all "indirectly admit forgery". Who are you to say when someone must "come forward" about assault? She added the date and location for her own records, she admitted to that. Trying to use that as some sort of strawman to indicate the rest of the entry as being forged is ridiculous. You have absolutely no way to say "Either ray, or another Roy signed it" as fact. Zero. It is literally impossible for you to make that statement unless it's coupled with "in my opinion".

Don't want to jump in your quote train, so I'll just copy it. Lol
If she genuinely added it for her own records, it should have been immediately told that. They waited until after it came under heavy scrutiny. Also it wasn't just the date and time I believe she forged his last name and "D.A.", which would lead to believe it was a setup, but she didn't know what the "D.A." meant on that was signed next to his name.

I genuinely don't know enough about the others to give a legitimate response.

I agree it's sketchy. I even agree that people should raise questions about it. But I don't think it's enough at all to completely dismiss her claim. I also don't think it's enough to dismiss the other 7+ women. Doing that is irresponsible. Even if we did completely dismiss her, we have 7+ other women as well as Roy Moore's own words (which I've brought up at least a half-dozen times and Ekelon casually ignores every single time).

Even if we discount ALL of that, for some weird reason, we're still left with a racially biased judge that has spent his career mishandling cases. Which itself is enough for me to not trust him with national power.

I think it's enough to dismiss her, honestly. I agree, it has to be on person to person basis, if one can be dismissed for whatever reason, doesn't mean they all can. I think a lot of the dismissal comes from the timing. Now, just a couple months before the election? Not that is a reason to dismiss them all either, but it's still odd.

Also we can't allow this to become a thing. It needs to be settled and if they are proven to be fake they need to have some repercussion. If they're not, well, whatever can be done about that as well, but we can't allow people to make whatever accusations right before an election and not have any repercussion (if they are lying) then it will become common place to do just to fuck with election results.

I know it's happened before, false allegations, but we really need some consequences. All political b/s aside even in everyday life.

I'm a very firm advocate that false accusations should be treated as if they're the ones committing the crime. Same punishment. I've seen lives get ruined by false allegations and think it's very serious. But it's an EXTREMELY slippery slope from that to victim blaming. I'm not the bleeding heart cuck liberal. So I'm not going to stand here and say I immediately believe every woman that claims a man touched her butt one time. But I do think every claim should be looked into, as you would with any crime.

As far as the timing, it's convenient. But with the number of sexual assaults/rapes/etc that go unreported in our country, it's not THAT odd. Maybe someone didn't want the attention when he was a judge, they didn't think it was worth it to expose themselves as a victim in the process. But him running for a seat this powerful prompted them to come forward, and the bravery of one inspired others.

The fact is we can't be sure. And while I don't think the guy should be thrown in prison off accusations without concrete evidence (I do support our judicial system, as flawed as it may be) I think this many allegations without substantial evidence to discredit them all is enough to err on the side of caution.

In my opinion the fact that he said (and I hate to keep harping on this) he didn't "generally" date teenage girls in his 30's is enough for me. That's creepy as fuck, and while I think DC is full to the brim of degenerate pedophiles, I don't want to even potentially add to it.

The problem with repercussions on false allegations is that it's very hard to prove them false. Just like it's very hard to really prove they're true (unless you're Ralph Shortey and get caught with a teenage boy in your motel room).

My wife works in the ER, more importantly she works on the small team that handles rape/sexual assault cases. And I've heard first hand stories (though I don't typically like anecdotal evidence) about how difficult it is to get these people to speak about the encounter, let alone prove anything. When she testifies in court for these types of cases she can't even give an opinion. She can only lay down very vague facts.

tl;dr

These types of things are always such a mess. And I wish it was easier to determine what was real and what wasn't. I find people that falsely accuse people of sexual crimes just as deplorable as people that commit them. But I can't bring myself to dismiss people because their claims seem convenient or motivated.

[Moose]

Re: Alabama Senate election Moore vs Jones

I agree with you, I don't think they should be dismissed. I think they should be looked into much deeper, specially now. He lost, are these women just going to be never heard from again? No follow up?

As far as his statement on generally not dating teenagers in his 30's, as creepy and weird, as you and I think it is, age of consent in Alabama is 16.

I also agree on how difficult it is to prove false, but if someone is ruled innocent, we don't even (for the most part) look into the accuser, it's just done there. If we looked more in depth into the entire case both sides respectively the same, I think even that would help stop some false accusers.

I completely understand how difficult it could be to get them to talk/prove it has happened. I don't doubt that at all. The human memory is also a flawed and could easily make mistakes in those scenarios. It's a horrible situation all together. I think the harder cases are ones like this, decades later, trying to prove anything. I think all accusations should be investigated idk anything about statue of limitations in Alabama, but if anything could be done if proven true, it should.

I don't doubt that at least one of them is lying (specifically yearbook lady), they should be made an example of as well. I think Roy Moore wins that case in court pretty handily, it screams political hit, but also should be investigated further.

[Robin Williams]

Re: Alabama Senate election Moore vs Jones

LMAO moose and ekelon having a tragic mental breakdown itt.


This thread sure did blow up in your faces didn't it? Got moose so shook he's agreeing with tadgh.

[Moose]

Re: Alabama Senate election Moore vs Jones

I'm actually not, though. We agree on basics that pretty much everyone should agree with, but not the the outcome.

How does Robin claim victory and still lose?

Pathetic!

[Robin Williams]

Re: Alabama Senate election Moore vs Jones

Calm down there moose. I don't want you having high blood pressure.

[Snitch Clique]

Re: Alabama Senate election Moore vs Jones

I agree with you, I don't think they should be dismissed. I think they should be looked into much deeper, specially now. He lost, are these women just going to be never heard from again? No follow up?

As far as his statement on generally not dating teenagers in his 30's, as creepy and weird, as you and I think it is, age of consent in Alabama is 16.

I also agree on how difficult it is to prove false, but if someone is ruled innocent, we don't even (for the most part) look into the accuser, it's just done there. If we looked more in depth into the entire case both sides respectively the same, I think even that would help stop some false accusers.

I completely understand how difficult it could be to get them to talk/prove it has happened. I don't doubt that at all. The human memory is also a flawed and could easily make mistakes in those scenarios. It's a horrible situation all together. I think the harder cases are ones like this, decades later, trying to prove anything. I think all accusations should be investigated idk anything about statue of limitations in Alabama, but if anything could be done if proven true, it should.

I don't doubt that at least one of them is lying (specifically yearbook lady), they should be made an example of as well. I think Roy Moore wins that case in court pretty handily, it screams political hit, but also should be investigated further.

I'm with you 100%. As a country we don't punish false allegations nearly as severely as we should. And if any/all of these women are found to be lying, I hope they're punished to the full extent of the law. I do think there is a difference between "unable to prove he's guilty" and "proof she's lying" though. So I'd want that distinction made.

As far as age of consent in Alabama, some of the accounts I've heard stated girls as young as 14. And while a 30 year old dating a 16 year old might not be criminal, it's still ethically fucked imo. But I wouldn't expect anyone else to adopt my opinion so I wouldn't pursue it.

Like you said the human memory is flawed, which is why I refused to just toss allegations aside because some minor details were misremembered. I think these allegations need to continue to be researched, for the sake of all parties involved. Either he's found to be innocent, and we look into whether or not these were false accusations, or he's found guilty. Either way someone needs to pay for their crimes.

[Moose]

Re: Alabama Senate election Moore vs Jones

I agree with you, I don't think they should be dismissed. I think they should be looked into much deeper, specially now. He lost, are these women just going to be never heard from again? No follow up?

As far as his statement on generally not dating teenagers in his 30's, as creepy and weird, as you and I think it is, age of consent in Alabama is 16.

I also agree on how difficult it is to prove false, but if someone is ruled innocent, we don't even (for the most part) look into the accuser, it's just done there. If we looked more in depth into the entire case both sides respectively the same, I think even that would help stop some false accusers.

I completely understand how difficult it could be to get them to talk/prove it has happened. I don't doubt that at all. The human memory is also a flawed and could easily make mistakes in those scenarios. It's a horrible situation all together. I think the harder cases are ones like this, decades later, trying to prove anything. I think all accusations should be investigated idk anything about statue of limitations in Alabama, but if anything could be done if proven true, it should.

I don't doubt that at least one of them is lying (specifically yearbook lady), they should be made an example of as well. I think Roy Moore wins that case in court pretty handily, it screams political hit, but also should be investigated further.

I'm with you 100%. As a country we don't punish false allegations nearly as severely as we should. And if any/all of these women are found to be lying, I hope they're punished to the full extent of the law. I do think there is a difference between "unable to prove he's guilty" and "proof she's lying" though. So I'd want that distinction made.

As far as age of consent in Alabama, some of the accounts I've heard stated girls as young as 14. And while a 30 year old dating a 16 year old might not be criminal, it's still ethically fucked imo. But I wouldn't expect anyone else to adopt my opinion so I wouldn't pursue it.

Like you said the human memory is flawed, which is why I refused to just toss allegations aside because some minor details were misremembered. I think these allegations need to continue to be researched, for the sake of all parties involved. Either he's found to be innocent, and we look into whether or not these were false accusations, or he's found guilty. Either way someone needs to pay for their crimes.

Yeah, we’re 100% on the same page with pretty much everything. As far as the age of consent being morally/ethically fucked up, I also agree, just saw it as being beyond the scope of the argument. I’m not entirely sure about the 14-16, you’re probably right, I seen 16, but I’m not super deep into it.

It just seems that after the election accusers disappear, nobody hears about it anymore, the damage is done, and repeat. Not that this will go that way, only time will tell, but all we can do is see how it plays out.

[Snitch Clique]

Re: Alabama Senate election Moore vs Jones

Yeah, we’re 100% on the same page with pretty much everything. As far as the age of consent being morally/ethically fucked up, I also agree, just saw it as being beyond the scope of the argument. I’m not entirely sure about the 14-16, you’re probably right, I seen 16, but I’m not super deep into it.

It just seems that after the election accusers disappear, nobody hears about it anymore, the damage is done, and repeat. Not that this will go that way, only time will tell, but all we can do is see how it plays out.

That's one of the biggest issues I have with false allegations. If someone came forward and accused me of sexual assault right now, I'd likely lose my job. I'd become the target of threats and my family would be shamed. Long before it ever hit a court room. If it was discovered that she made it up, she might see some sort of punishment. But my life would still be all but ruined. People would still have it in the back of their mind that there was a reason I was accused. That maybe there are other women that weren't lying. The repercussions would have lifelong effects.

That being said, I still think all accusations should be taken very seriously. I wish there was a cleaner way to get through stuff like this. A way for ONLY guilty people to be impacted. Unfortunately I don't know if that's possible.